Residing abroad and shastras
Residing abroad and shastras
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Re: Residing abroad and shastras
Posted by: "Kasturi Rangan"
Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:56 pm (PST)
In vaideekam@yahoogroups.com, "ravi"
1.I have heard shastras advise/prohibit residing in mlechcha desha
(lands outside of Bharat)especially for Braahmanas and leads to loss of
varna, making our nitya-karmas null and void or ineffective, etc.
[KRK] This is not true. Give me proof from dharmasUtras and/or canonical
smRitis that nityakarmas performed outside bhArata is null & void.
To be clear and to give a context, dharmasUtras enumerate the source of
dharma as (a) shruti, (b) smriti & (c) shishTAchArA. The clarification
on (c) - i.e. practices of shishTas as source of dharma goes like this -
AryAvarta is a place where R^ishis and AchAryas were born. Hence the
practices of brAhmaNas living in that region are to be preferred by
default. Only Manu adds that all brAhmaNas should strive to live in that
region. Furthermore, the boundary of AryAvarta ends with Vindhya
mountains in the south. So, brAhmaNas living in Tamil Nadu have lost
their varNa and they don't have to perform nitya/naimittika karmas?
BTW, I won't trust the practices of modern brAhmaNas UP & Haryana and
take that as authority just because they happen to live in Aryavarta.
2.Now this may different for those who left as refugees to escape
Islam, etc.; but many of us or our fathers left Bharat due to economic
opportunities.
[KRK] Migrating due to economic oppression is a fact of life. We have a
state government that is unfavorable to FCs. I personally know bright
students who have had to bribe to get a good college seat despite having
good marks. Shastras also say that brAhmaNas should not live in a land
ruled by anArya. This rules out whole of India.
If you want some comfort, Apastamba says that one can live anywhere if
he is able to get sacrificial fuel and water for his karmas.
3.Loss of varna can occur in current birth (e.g. female in a pratiloma
vivaha; curse by Devta or Rishi) or in subsequent generations (progeny
of certain anuloma vivahas, or not following svadharma/nitya-karmas).
4.Loss of varna can occur in subsequent birth(s) due to actions in
current birth.
5.Conduct can make one a sinful Braahmana and not being diligent in
dharma/svadharma makes one a fallen or degraded Braahmana depending on
the issue.
6.Raavana, Ashwathama, Kamsa, Duryodhana, to name a few; did not lose
their varna status as Braahmanas (for the first 2) and as Kshatriyas
(latter 2) and they committed acts that are worse than mlechcha
samparka.
[KRK] Loss of varNa immediately happens if you commit a mahApAtaka
(great sin) - killing a brAhmaNa, defiling guru's bed, consuming
alcohol, stealing gold. This also happens if you habitually commit
upapAtakas (minor sins). You can get the laundry list in Manu and other
dharmasUtras.
7.So what is the recourse for us residing in mlechcha desha:
a.Truly become mlechchas and marry among them.
b.Give up yagnopaveetha, sandhya-vandana, etc --- as "we may not be
dharmically allowed to perform them".
c.If we return to Bharat Desha, what varna would we be ?
d.I am not being sarcastic, but what do our acharyas say ?
[KRK] Your authority should be shruti first. Then smriti. Finally the
practices of shishTas - that include AchAryas. Shruti itself is clear
(Taittiriya AraNyaka VII close to terminal section) - If you have a
doubt regarding dharma, follow the practices of brAhmaNas who are
dharmakAmAs (loosely intent on fulfilling dharma - more like a
prohibition - you have to avoid if a practice is merely wish
fulfilling). I follow my teacher who fits this criterion who doesn't see
residing outside bhArata as a problem. He is a much better brAhmaNa than
nAmamAtra (namesake) brAhmaNas living in India whose only claim to
brAhmaNatva is pompous performance of sandhyavandanam without
understanding a single word of the mantra.
8.More perplexing: Many SriVaishnava religious heads visit USA (Chinna
Jeeyar Swami, Velukuddi Krishnan, etc), as do Madhva heads
(BaanajeGovindacharya). There are also purohits/leaders affiliated with
Smartha/Shankara Mutts in USA,i.e., Sringeri Bharati Vidya.
Dhanyavaad,
Ravi
-----------------------------
Re: Residing abroad and shastras
Posted by: "Kasturi Rangan"
Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:56 pm (PST)
In vaideekam@yahoogroups.com, "ravi"
1.I have heard shastras advise/prohibit residing in mlechcha desha
(lands outside of Bharat)especially for Braahmanas and leads to loss of
varna, making our nitya-karmas null and void or ineffective, etc.
[KRK] This is not true. Give me proof from dharmasUtras and/or canonical
smRitis that nityakarmas performed outside bhArata is null & void.
To be clear and to give a context, dharmasUtras enumerate the source of
dharma as (a) shruti, (b) smriti & (c) shishTAchArA. The clarification
on (c) - i.e. practices of shishTas as source of dharma goes like this -
AryAvarta is a place where R^ishis and AchAryas were born. Hence the
practices of brAhmaNas living in that region are to be preferred by
default. Only Manu adds that all brAhmaNas should strive to live in that
region. Furthermore, the boundary of AryAvarta ends with Vindhya
mountains in the south. So, brAhmaNas living in Tamil Nadu have lost
their varNa and they don't have to perform nitya/naimittika karmas?
BTW, I won't trust the practices of modern brAhmaNas UP & Haryana and
take that as authority just because they happen to live in Aryavarta.
2.Now this may different for those who left as refugees to escape
Islam, etc.; but many of us or our fathers left Bharat due to economic
opportunities.
[KRK] Migrating due to economic oppression is a fact of life. We have a
state government that is unfavorable to FCs. I personally know bright
students who have had to bribe to get a good college seat despite having
good marks. Shastras also say that brAhmaNas should not live in a land
ruled by anArya. This rules out whole of India.
If you want some comfort, Apastamba says that one can live anywhere if
he is able to get sacrificial fuel and water for his karmas.
3.Loss of varna can occur in current birth (e.g. female in a pratiloma
vivaha; curse by Devta or Rishi) or in subsequent generations (progeny
of certain anuloma vivahas, or not following svadharma/nitya-karmas).
4.Loss of varna can occur in subsequent birth(s) due to actions in
current birth.
5.Conduct can make one a sinful Braahmana and not being diligent in
dharma/svadharma makes one a fallen or degraded Braahmana depending on
the issue.
6.Raavana, Ashwathama, Kamsa, Duryodhana, to name a few; did not lose
their varna status as Braahmanas (for the first 2) and as Kshatriyas
(latter 2) and they committed acts that are worse than mlechcha
samparka.
[KRK] Loss of varNa immediately happens if you commit a mahApAtaka
(great sin) - killing a brAhmaNa, defiling guru's bed, consuming
alcohol, stealing gold. This also happens if you habitually commit
upapAtakas (minor sins). You can get the laundry list in Manu and other
dharmasUtras.
7.So what is the recourse for us residing in mlechcha desha:
a.Truly become mlechchas and marry among them.
b.Give up yagnopaveetha, sandhya-vandana, etc --- as "we may not be
dharmically allowed to perform them".
c.If we return to Bharat Desha, what varna would we be ?
d.I am not being sarcastic, but what do our acharyas say ?
[KRK] Your authority should be shruti first. Then smriti. Finally the
practices of shishTas - that include AchAryas. Shruti itself is clear
(Taittiriya AraNyaka VII close to terminal section) - If you have a
doubt regarding dharma, follow the practices of brAhmaNas who are
dharmakAmAs (loosely intent on fulfilling dharma - more like a
prohibition - you have to avoid if a practice is merely wish
fulfilling). I follow my teacher who fits this criterion who doesn't see
residing outside bhArata as a problem. He is a much better brAhmaNa than
nAmamAtra (namesake) brAhmaNas living in India whose only claim to
brAhmaNatva is pompous performance of sandhyavandanam without
understanding a single word of the mantra.
8.More perplexing: Many SriVaishnava religious heads visit USA (Chinna
Jeeyar Swami, Velukuddi Krishnan, etc), as do Madhva heads
(BaanajeGovindacharya). There are also purohits/leaders affiliated with
Smartha/Shankara Mutts in USA,i.e., Sringeri Bharati Vidya.
Dhanyavaad,
Ravi
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